Simple Yet Profound Ways to Transform Your Marriage

John Fuller: Welcome to Focus on the Family’s weekend broadcast. We hope the following program will challenge you and encourage you in your faith journey.
Guest (Female): I think the most important letter is A, and I think the word that goes with that is acceptance.
Guest (Male): I think the most important letter is S, because S stands for selflessness.
Guest (Female): The most important letter is P for prayer.
Guest (Male): I think L because listening is so important in a marriage to be able to sit down and hear what your spouse has to say.
John Fuller: Well, what do you think? What letter of the alphabet do you have for your marriage? Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we’re going to be exploring some simple ways that you can really revolutionize your relationship with your spouse. I’m John Fuller, and we’re so glad you’ve joined us.
Jim Daly: It’s good nobody said F. I think we’d all go, "What?" But it could be friendship. That’s a good one. Not a letter grade like failure, right? But the longer I’ve been married, the more I realize that it’s not the big things that destroy marriage. Those things do, whether it’s addiction or infidelity—those big things that can happen. But over time, all the little things can add up to drifting apart and no longer being in love with each other. So, today, we want to cover those A to Z ideas. It gives us a simple framework with our guests to better understand what to think about when you’re in that moment with your spouse and what you need to do to preserve, grow, and deepen your love in your marriage.
John Fuller: Jason and Tori Benham are back with us today. They’ve developed a list of 30 different simple, effective ideas that couples can use to strengthen their relationship. These are things you can start doing today. The Benhams were here last year, and we covered just a few items from those 30. Jason and Tori are relationship coaches, speakers, authors, and they’ve got a podcast. It’s great—you should listen—it’s called *Beauty and Battle*. The list they’ve developed is more or less based on their book, *A to Z Marriage: 30 Days to Relational Transformation*. It’s got more than 26—it’s got 30 ways.
Jim Daly: There are four more letters! Jason and Tori, welcome back. It’s good to finish the alphabet with you. It reminds me of third grade—A, B, C, D. Do you guys still have to sing the alphabet to get to the letter you need?
Jason Benham: I had the idea for this book and I said, "Okay, let’s do 30 principles, which would be a principle a day for a month." Thirty principles to marriage transformation. I was like, "And I’ll follow the alphabet." Now, I got an 820 on my SAT, and I decided to count how many letters are in the alphabet and I realized there was only 26. So, we just added a few at the end and plus-ed it up.
Jim Daly: That’s awesome. I love that. But you can go with double A and double B. That’s what you do. It is fun. The one I wanted to start with today—and again, if people missed it, they can go to the archives, get the app for the phone, and you can listen it that way or go to the website—but let’s start with Z just to go right to the most difficult of all letters. What did you come up with for Z?
Jason Benham: I remember looking at that and I thought, "Well, where am I going to get Z?" I looked up the word because I was looking for something that involved humor, and I looked up the word zanyism. So, like zany. It’s all about humor. I started talking to Tori and I was like, "You know, one of the things that has helped us a lot in marriage, specifically when it comes to conflict, is having a little bit of a sense of humor."
Jim Daly: Tori, is that true? Did you appreciate those funny jokes right at the heat of battle with your hubby?
Tori Benham: No. Timing is everything. But we have learned that you don’t have to take yourself so seriously. The biggest problem that we ran into at the beginning of our relationship was taking things too seriously, especially for me. I just took things really seriously. Then as we began to laugh about things and then we kind of have our own little sense of humor over it. We have lines from movies that we now break the ice with. When things get a little bit heated, we have our little lines that we’re like, "You know what? It’s really not that big of a deal," and we can just make fun of each other.
Jim Daly: That’s good. Do you have a little movie line example for us?
Jason Benham: I used one this morning from *Home Alone 2* when he’s in bed and a guy is there scooping him ice cream. Then the guy says, "Would you like another scoop?" And he’s like, "Hey, I’m not driving!" Then he puts it in there. We weren���t in a fight or anything, but I’m like, "I’m not driving!" Let’s get another scoop. It is funny, though. Little things like that. We always encourage couples, find a show that you can watch together that makes you laugh. Find a comedian that makes you laugh together or some movies, and pick a few of those lines. At any moment when things get a little heated, maybe pull out a line or two and just have a good laugh with each other. It helps a lot in marriage.
Tori Benham: It’s kind of just a reminder that it’s okay for us to laugh. One of the ones that I think about all the time is the one from *Night at the Museum*. There’s the guy Brundon and there’s a scene with him, and it’s just the funniest scene. At one point, he looks at Ben Stiller and he says, "And you know what? Be nice to people." We say that to each other all the time when things are getting a little heated. We’re like, "You know what? Be nice to people."
Jim Daly: We love that movie because the actor—the character name—is Daley. Larry Daley. We like the Darth Vader scene where he’s going, "What are you? Asthmatic?" I lost it at that point. Okay, we got Z. Now M: moving toward your mate. This may be when you look at this wonderful little quick read, *A to Z Marriage: 30 Days to Relational Transformation*. You look at M for moving toward your mate. When you’re having a disagreement—I know folks are going to send us a note saying, "I never argue"—that is awesome. Way to go. Most of us will have some disagreements. The most difficult time to move toward your mate is in the moment of disagreement. That’s like crazy.
Jason Benham: Here’s the crazy thing. Dr. John Gottman, foremost researcher on all things marriage, he said that out of 50 years of studying marriages, the ones that are the most healthy are the ones where when conflict happens, people move toward their mate. Not just conflict. If I reach out to Tori and I’m going to go grab her hand, she responds positively to that and grabs my hand. If I put my arm around her, she kind of snuggles up into my arm. So, when I’m moving toward her, she moves toward me. The difficult part is when you’re at odds with each other. That’s why even science has come out now—research has come out now—that shows that 20 seconds of physical touch, like just a hug, can reset things emotionally for you. So, when things get a little heated, sometimes Tori and I will reach out, we’ll kind of grab hands, hold hands a little bit, or we might force a hug in that moment. You’re moving toward your mate; it really does reset things.
Tori Benham: Years ago, I was certified as an emotional intelligence coach. I learned so much during that season of just self-awareness. The first quadrant of emotional intelligence is self-awareness. One of the things that I learned about myself is that I move away from Jason in conflict. That was very eye-opening to me because I wasn’t aware of it. I wasn’t able to fix it. I would think that’s normal for all of us. That’s the normal reaction, like, "Okay, I’m going to a different room. I’m laying on the opposite side of the bed facing away." For me, I wasn’t even self-aware. I wasn’t aware enough to know that it was happening, that every time there was a conflict, my initial reaction was to move away, to get quiet, to distance myself. As I began to learn, "Oh my goodness, this is not working for our relationship," I began to learn how to move into that next quadrant of emotional intelligence, which is self-management. Now that I know that I’m doing this, what can I do about it? I began to practice doing the very opposite of the thing that I want to do in that moment, which is to pull away, to distance myself, to get quiet, and to actualy take a step in the other direction and to move toward him. Do something that’s uncomfortable, right? This is a part of marriage that’s so important—that we grow in flexibility. It is not like for me that was—I was very inflexible in that area. I had to lean in and stretch and do something uncomfortable to grow in flexibility. That really was a practice that I began to do years ago, and it was really helpful for our relationship.
Jason Benham: It’s not to say, though, that in the moment of battle you can’t pull away just for 20 minutes or whatever because flooding is a thing. The 20-minute rule is it takes sometimes 20 minutes of chill time and then come back together. The idea is don't stay away. Come back together and move toward each other even when you don’t want to.
Jim Daly: I appreciate that clarification because I don’t think I’m alone in this. There was a moment where we were having some words and I wanted to fix the problem, so I moved in to hug her and she said, "Not now." That was good emotional intelligence of her own well-being. It set a boundary, and I was kind of wounded. I’m like, "Can’t we just hug and get over this?" So, there has to be space. I like the 20-minute rule because sometimes we guys want to have a simple fix. Let me ask you in terms of love language. We’ve had Gary Chapman here. We’re all well-prepared in the love language. Physical touch is one. That’s kind of maybe not your language, Tori, but you were expressing it if you moved in rather than pulling back. The one that you do possess that we know about is really the idea of quality time. How did that work when you’re going well and doing well as a couple? It’s probably easy. But when it’s a little harder, how do you get quality time?
Tori Benham: When Jason and I first got married, that was my primary love language and Jason’s was not. So, we talked about it, and Jason became aware of that love language and I became aware of his. You can tell them the story of how the Lord really changed your love language through you pursuing me through mine.
Jason Benham: You know, it’s crazy because Dr. Gary Chapman, he’s a hero of ours. We love him. My primary love language when we first got married was physical touch and words of affirmation, which is most of the guys out there. Bottom of my list was quality time and gifts. But I tell couples all the time—and Gary Thomas, I think, is the one that coined this—"God is not just your Father; He’s your Father-in-law." Can you imagine how much your Father-in-law is going to help you when He sees you loving His son or daughter in a way that might not be your natural way? I knew hers was quality time. So, for 20-plus years, I was spending quality time with her even in those times where I didn’t want to. Do you know I took that test again because Dr. Chapman came up with it online a year ago? We’ve been married for 25 years a few weeks ago. So, I’m 24 years into marriage, and I took that test again. You want to know what my number one love language was? Quality time. My Father-in-law, God, transformed my heart. He can do that to anybody. There are probably some people listening right now that think, "I can never be that for. I can’t do that for my husband or my wife or whatever." Do it. The essential element of love is sacrifice. When you sacrifice, God, your Father, who is also your Father-in-law, will bring the transformation that’s needed in your heart and your mind and your life, and He’ll transform your relationship.
Jim Daly: So, how did you move toward physical touch?
Tori Benham: This is really interesting. I feel like it’s so important that you value each love language. You have to be able to see each of them and see value in each of them. I remember a time where I began to learn the value of physical touch. I was listening to a podcast on neuroscience and they were talking about how it regulates the body, how it’s so important to have physical touch. When you’re holding your spouse’s hand, your body is actually being regulated. Sometimes when you’re highly anxious and you just hold somebody’s hand or you give them a 20-second hug, it actually regulates your nervous system. So, I actually began to value that love language. The love language of physical touch, which I didn’t really value before, I thought it was stupid. I felt like it was always leading in one direction that I didn’t want to go all the time. There was just—I didn’t really value it. But as I began to value it and to reach for Jason and to think, "You know, this is really good for me. Oh wow, I actually do feel my body regulating," I actually now have become a physical touch girl as well because I just kind of leaned into something that I didn’t think that I liked and began to value it.
Jim Daly: That is good and healthy. Hey, let me ask you: D for dominion.
Jason Benham: Dominion was our very first blessing that God gave to Adam and Eve in the garden. So, dominion is taking authority for the place where God has put you. You need to have authority in your marriage. As husbands, our relationships with God are tied to our relationship with our wife. We see that in the New Testament where God’s like, "I’m not even listening to your prayers because of the way that you’re treating the wife of your youth." So, God is like, "You need to have dominion in every area of your life," and the primary one is right there with God’s daughter. The primary one is right there with God’s son.
John Fuller: This Focus on the Family broadcast will continue in just a moment.
Jim Daly: Taylor loves listening every day because we give him ideas, tips, and resources to improve his marriage.
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John Fuller: Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family. Let’s resume now with the balance of today’s program. Continuing this thought, Jason, you had a story about playing baseball that related to this that I thought was kind of interesting.
Jason Benham: Who would have thought that—the baseball player! I remember being eight years old and I looked on the schedule and we had to play—and we just went by colors back then. We didn’t have cool names. I’m playing baseball in Little League and we had to play the red team. On the red team was a guy named Brent Murphy. Brent Murphy was the most feared pitcher in all of the world. He threw 1,000 miles an hour. The ball was on fire when he threw it—smoking! Nobody wanted to hit against him and I was so scared. When we got to the field, I saw him out there warming up and my heart was just pounding. I was like the third-hole hitter. I was a good hitter. The first guy gets up, he strikes out. Next guy is up and I’m on deck and my heart is pounding and I’m just like, "This is not going to work." So, I fake a sickness. I walked over to my coach at third base and I was like, "I think my stomach is hurting. I think I’m sick." He goes, "Oh, by all means, go sit down." So, I don’t get to hit and I go and I sit down on the bench. I look over at my dad and my dad knows exactly what I did. I wimped out. I didn’t take dominion in that moment, and I became a spectator in a game I was made to play. You know what? I think there are a lot of spouses that are spectators in a game that they should be playing. You got to get out there on the field. Fear is going to present itself. But courage isn’t a thing if fear doesn’t first show up. We can’t be courageous if fear doesn’t show up. So, you got to face your fear, whatever that is. If you got to go deep into your history and talk about some things you hadn’t talked with your spouse about, if you’ve got to move forward toward your spouse when you don’t want to, face those fears. Then ultimately, you will not find yourself spectating, but you’ll actually be in the game playing and you can play to win.
Jim Daly: I give you kudos for saying that. I’m sitting here going, "Okay, that’s gutsy for a guy to say I wimped out." If we were a little younger, I’d be all over you! Like, "What are you talking about?" But it’s true. It’s a good analysis or a good analogy for how we do that emotionally as well. Tori, you have to represent all women here at the table because you are the woman at the table. But when it comes to affection—now we’re going to move a little bit in the other direction or in a further direction of physical touch—but when we’re talking about affection, you also mention that instead of waiting for the right mood, we’ve got to be available. Both husband and wife—the shoe is sometimes on the other foot with this, so I don’t want to make that a gender stereotype—but most often it’s the man who is thinking affection a little more deeply. Speak to that issue of being available both ways. Husband and wife being able to send the signal of affection is desired. How do we get into a healthier place? I’m telling you and people watching and listening know this: this is like the number one issue in marriage, negotiating physical intimacy. It just becomes a problem for some reason. I think the enemy of our soul works incredible mischief in this area.
Tori Benham: I totally can attest to that. I think it’s a mindset. I think that our mindset has to be right. I think that sometimes—I think for women—I know for myself that I kind of grew up thinking that affection and intimacy and, to be blunt, sex was for the man. I did not see it as something that was a blessing to me. So, that had to change. That mindset had to change—that God created intimacy, He created affection for me and for Jason. As I began to see the blessing of it and to receive the gift that it was for me, I was able to give it in a better and in a more healthy way. But I think it was definitely a mindset. I also think that as women, we go through seasons of childbearing and where we are, you know, touched out. I call it "touched out" where kids are touching and clawing. I have a picture of one of our kids; their hand is under the bathroom door. I said, "I can’t escape!" You can’t escape! I think there are seasons of that where you start to devalue intimacy and the things that overwhelm you. For me, I had to get to a place where it’s like, "Okay, my mindset is getting a little bit off here. I’m not seeing it as a blessing. I’m not seeing it as a good thing." Then to be able to—I also think that we also women need time to do that, to get into the right mindset. That it can’t just be expected that we can just drop everything like I think a man’s brain is a little bit more compartmentalized. Things are kind of in boxes and he can go from this to this in 0.5 seconds, whereas a woman, everything is a little bit more connected. It takes us a little bit more time to get there. So, men, if they can be patient with us for us to make that transfer and for us to get into the mindset...
Jason Benham: And you know, I’ve heard Tori counsel a lot of women during this time where she’s like, "Okay, you got to change your mindset and then you need some time to yourself. With that time, what you need to be focusing on is appreciation for your husband." Actually start appreciating him—like, notice the things that he does.
Jim Daly: Because that’s the doorway for a woman. It’s not like men. I mean, like men, it’s purely the physical thing. I don’t mean to make it simplistic—and you can send me a note and all that—but realistically, generally that’s it. Women need a different type of framework to say, "Okay, this helps me to get there," and that’s connection and emotional attachment. We’re blowing our mind like, "What? How does that connect with that?" But it does. We need to understand that for a woman and a husband, it’s not wrong for her to talk about rewarding her husband if he can help her get to that place. For her to say, "Hey, listen, if you can actually vacuum the floor and then get all the kids ready for bed, give me some time and then later tonight..." That’s not manipulation; that’s motivation! You’re going to find him very motivated to do those things, and that is a very good and healthy—I mean, God is a rewarder of us. It talks all throughout Scripture how He rewards.
Jim Daly: Well, and the other thing, like you guys say, be out there and use it humorously. Identify it. Have fun with it. Like, "Hey, I’m going to be vacuuming tonight, so you got any more chores for me? It’s going to take dishes and laundry on top of it," or whatever it might be. Let’s move into K: kill the crazy with a K. What is the crazy and how do we kill it?
Jason Benham: What I’m talking about is if you know that you do something that annoys your spouse, stop it. Why do we need to go any further on this? It’s not like, "Oh, this is just who I am." If you know that it’s something that’s really bothersome to your spouse, then quit.
Jim Daly: Give me an example.
Jason Benham: Bad breath. Well, how do you quit that? You chew gum! If you’re in close proximity. But whatever it is—using the restroom and the seat always stays up. Okay, I am doing really well at that one. It’s like, "Okay, you’re done. You’re a guy. I tell you what, do her a favor and put the seat down."
Jim Daly: Never thought it would get to that!
Jason Benham: Or if you’re still in junior high and you don’t raise the seat up before you use the restroom, wipe it off! It’s little things.
Tori Benham: But that communicates, "I see you. I care about you." It seems silly and that’s a minor example, but it does. It communicates, "I care. I see you. I’m listening." I love the quote that we have for this chapter and it says, "Some people don’t know they’re being annoying, which is even more annoying." That is so true! The awareness is so important. Some people—you don’t know you’re being annoying, which makes it even more annoying. So, I think the awareness—bringing awareness to it—it’s like, "Oh, this really drives him crazy. Maybe there’s something I can do about this." Case in point is the toilet seat. That was something that Jason did. And in the middle of the night is the worst because it’s dark. I don’t turn the lights on. And so I was like, "It’s really getting bothersome." And he just couldn’t remember in the middle of the night to put it down. And then I was like, "Oh man, babe, you did it again, and I almost fell in the toilet!"
Jim Daly: And I guess there you have it, getting to the basics here on Focus on the Family by falling in the toilet. We don’t normally tackle tough topics like this.
John Fuller: But seat management is an important topic in many households. It’s very serious.
Jim Daly: Well, it starts at about one and a half, right? You got to get that toddler up there. But let me tell you: seat management, that’s pretty funny and what a great conversation with Jason and Tori today. It was so practical and honoring of both spouses in marriage. Husbands and wives, we can’t afford to take each other for granted, especially after 20 or 30 or more years. If you want a strong and healthy relationship that will last your lifetime, you need the principles in the Benhams' book, *A to Z Marriage: 30 Days to Relational Transformation*. Contact us to get a copy. Make a monthly pledge of any amount. Let’s help other couples as well, and we’ll put this book into your hands. That’s our way of saying thanks for partnering with us to help those marriages thrive too.
John Fuller: And of course, if a monthly pledge is more than you can do right now, a generous one-time gift also helps. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or you can donate and get a copy of that book, *A to Z Marriage*, at FocusOnTheFamily.com/weekend. And while you’re there, another resource we have is our free marriage assessment, which is easy, it’s online, and it’s going to help you identify strengths in your relationship and maybe an area or two of improvement. It’ll give you a great way to have conversations in non-confrontational discussions. So, look for the link to the marriage assessment at the website. You know, our goal here at Focus on the Family is to be an ongoing resource for your marriage and family. Whatever the questions you might have, that’s why we provide tools, advice, and encouragement like we hopefully have done today. And it’s having a great impact. A woman named Jordan shared this comment: "God is using your ministry to not only help me heal from my childhood but also get help in changing the communication pattern with my husband. I believe God is using you to make our marriage so much stronger." That’s wonderful news, I think. And here’s the thing: we can’t serve couples like Jordan and her husband without your support. Your ongoing gifts provide the fuel we need to save marriages, equip parents, rescue preborn babies, and so much more. You are a part of it. You’re in the ministry when you support Focus on the Family. So, let’s work together to equip and encourage more marriages like Jordan’s. A monthly pledge is a great way to do that, or a one-time gift—whatever you can do.
Jim Daly: And once again, our phone number: 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or just go to FocusOnTheFamily.com/weekend. Thanks for joining us for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m Jim Daly.
John Fuller: I’m John Fuller, inviting you back for more marriage insights from Jason and Tori Benham next time as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. [Ad break - Smalleys]
Jason Benham: God transformed my heart, and He can do that to anybody. There are probably some people listening right now that think, "I can never be that. I can’t do that for my husband or my wife or whatever." Do it. And when, you know, the essential element of love is sacrifice. When you sacrifice, God, your Father, who is also your Father-in-law, will bring the transformation that’s needed in your heart and your mind and your life, and He’ll transform your relationship.
John Fuller: Well, Jason and Tori Benham are back with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller. We’re so glad you’ve joined us.
Jim Daly: John, so often the fun, kind of what seems to be lighthearted conversations end up being the most powerful. I felt like that last time. It was fun. If you haven’t heard it, go back and listen to it through the app or the website. You can get that program. But it just had so many nuggets in it. They were crisp and right to the point and wrapped in humor, which I think helps it to stick in our heads—at least for me, that helps.
John Fuller: Well, and I’ve been married 40-plus years. You’re approaching 40 years, and we can still drink in this wisdom because it’s applicable to anybody in marriage, right?
Jim Daly: Oh yeah, if anything, I felt like I’m halfway there! So, anyway. But that’s the point. We want to help you have the best marriage you can have in Christ. I mean, that’s the goal. And so often, some people will write to us and say, "You know, you make an idol out of family." Well, we are a family ministry. We know that there are other ways to express your love to the Lord and live this life. But we’re speaking to pre-married couples and married couples and all the seasons of that expression, whether it’s death of a spouse or divorce or whatever it may be and then all the parenting along the way. This is our mission. So, we’re going to talk about this in that context. Our guests did such a great job kind of bringing the right things to think about in marriage. Right, and while this is, as you described it, a lighter show, there are people with serious issues. Just this quick reminder that we’ve got so many resources for you if you’re struggling. Just give us a call: 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Jason and Tori do a lot. They’re podcasters and authors and speakers, and they’ve written a terrific book called *A to Z Marriage: 30 Days to Relational Transformation*. Jason and Tori, welcome back.
Jason Benham: Great to be with you guys again. I felt like what we were sharing is really going to help you with Jean. I think that came through loud and clear.
Jim Daly: I made lots of notes, which I hope you are as well. But let’s go to the other easy letter of the alphabet: Q. So, we’ve covered X and Z and Q. I don’t even remember what Q is! Quilting? Oh, "Quit quitting," right? Quilting—I thought it was quilting! I was going, "Jason, what a good husband you are. You’re into quilting with Tori!" But it’s "Quit quitting." Is it obvious or what’s the substance around it?
Jason Benham: It is very obvious, but I think that it says a lot about your commitment. I mean, there does come a point where your emotions aren’t lining up with what you want them to. Maybe you said the wrong thing and your spouse—and it is just there’s nothing that you can do in that moment to make things better except refuse to quit. It’s "I’m not going to use the D-word," you know? "We’re just not going to quit." That’s it. I’m just going to continue moving forward. And yeah, we might need some space. We might need some of that. But I’m not quitting on you, and I know you’re not quitting on me. Once you get to that point, I’m telling you, just that brings security in a relationship.
Jim Daly: Let me back the truck up a little bit, though, because I think it’s important for people listening and viewing where they may be. The well is dry. That’s where they’re at. They can’t imagine that this well will ever fill with fresh water again—meaning the love in their relationship. Speak to that person in that moment where they’re just realizing, "I don’t know that we have enough together to continue." Now, as Christians, I know you guys are jumping out going, "What are you talking about?" I’m just trying to position this to say that couples, both in the church and outside the church, will feel like the well is dry and I’ve come to the end of my rope and there’s nothing there incentivizing me to stick with it. How do we need to look at that differently in that moment?
Jason Benham: I love that question because I see it all through Scripture where one of the first things that they would do when they went into a new place was to dig a well. It’s like you have to have a well. Then when we see Jesus before—when He announced essentially that He is the Messiah, the Son of God—the first person, it’s to a woman that He meets at a well. It’s like the well is so incredibly important. That’s why I harken back to an analogy we used earlier about be a fountain and not a drain. You have to tap into that well. You have to tap into the source. You have to give God the credit that He is powerful enough to transform anything. He brings dead things to life. He brings dead things to life. You need to claim that over yourself, and you need to claim that over your spouse and over your relationship. And you bring God, the author of life, in. I mean, you go even look in the book of Ezekiel where God told him to prophesy to the bones. These were dead bones. Dry bones. Yeah, they were completely dried, which means they’ve been dead for a long time. And he prophesied to them and they woke up and they started rattling. And then He’s like, "Now prophesy to the breath." He breathes life into those bones, and then they arose a great army. You know a great army? They’re on mission. An army has a mission. And I think oftentimes when you’re at the bottom of your rope and you feel like the well is dry, oftentimes is because you guys have lost your sense of mission as a couple. It’s like, "Why did God put us together in the first place?" Because it’s certainly not to sit here and argue back and forth. You know what? The more you focus on trying to get along, the more you’re probably going to start arguing. What you need to do is stop focusing on you, stop focusing on your relationship, and get out there and start focusing on helping other people. You embrace each other’s strengths and even your weaknesses to be able to do that. Watch how the Lord comes in and rewards you. And now all of a sudden, that well’s not dry; it’s overflowing.
Tori Benham: In that regard, I think that hopelessness is such a killer in marriage. I think that hopelessness is something that I recognized probably midway into our marriage. I remember there being a season where I was feeling just kind of low. I think it was during the winter season, and I just was feeling just not myself and some anxiety. I was just going to the Lord, and I was like—and I was feeling it in my relationship, but I was also feeling it in every area of my life. Just kind of a down season. I remember asking the Lord, "I need you to speak to me. What’s going on inside of me that I am struggling so much?" And the Lord gave me a dream, and in the dream, it was the most hopeless situation. It wouldn’t even make sense to you if I told you the dream, but it was very hopeless and I woke up and I looked at the clock and I still thought that this thing had happened. Then I realized it was a dream and that it wasn’t real. In that moment, this overwhelming sense of hopelessness dropped because it was just a dream; it was just a nightmare. I felt like the Lord said, "This is what’s happening in your life. You are living in hopelessness. You are seeing everything through this lens of hopelessness, even in the most silly ways." That day, I remember three different people asked me to do something and I had to say no, and I’m a people pleaser and I had plans that day and I couldn’t help these three people that I love so much. But I had other plans and other commitments, so I had to say no to them, which is the worst thing for a people pleaser to have to say—is no. And I felt that weight of hopelessness. The Lord said, "Do you see? This is how you’re operating. You’re operating in this weight of hopelessness, and it’s infiltrated into every area of your life, including your marriage." And so I began to just really focus in on that. How am I living a life of hopelessness? Some of those ways were the ways I was thinking about Jason. Some of those ways were the ways I was even thinking about my own kids. Some of the conversations we’d have about our kids, they were hopeless. It was like, "They don’t do this, and did you know he did this again? And she talked..." You know, it’s like this—it’s like this attitude, this doomsday attitude. And I remember the Lord just really speaking to my heart in that season that I am operating out of a spirit of hopelessness. I began to really turn that around, and I began to breathe life into my relationship. I began to look for good in everybody. I began to look for the good in Jason. I began to talk about the good I was seeing in my kids to Jason, to the people around me. And I began to just kind of have that victory—a victory mindset. We talk about a victory mindset in our book *Beauty and Battle*. If we are one with Christ, we’re on the winning team. In the end, we win. So, let’s live like we won. Let’s not live like we’re victims of hopelessness.
Jason Benham: Can I put a bow on that real quick? Because trust is a choice; hope is a feeling. Trust is the choice we make when we’re going to trust God no matter what. Hope is the feeling that follows. I think a lot of people don’t have hope because they’ve never truly made the choice to trust. So, make the choice where you are in your relationship, wherever it is. Make that choice that you’re going to stick with it, that you’re going to trust God as your Father and God as your Father-in-law, and in time, that feeling’s going to follow—the feeling of hope.
Jim Daly: In mentioning that "quit" in this part of the book, you also talk about perhaps it’s not going to be divorce; it’s going to be apathy. So, committed Christian couples, they may land there, but the marriage is nearly dead. And that’s what you mean by the apathy. How do we avoid that to not just be business partners and apathetic?
Jason Benham: I think first we have to recognize that the opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference. If you’re feeling indifferent toward your spouse, you need to go to your Father-in-law. I’m going to keep bringing it back again—you need to go to God and ask Him to reignite that passion in your heart. He did it for me. I think I actually told the story on one of our broadcasts that we did on our first book, *Beauty and Battle*, but I’ll just give you the CliffNotes. That happened to me five years into marriage where that love that was once on fire and just filled with fervency just began to dissipate. I was focusing on building a business and doing all sorts of stuff. Praying to the Lord about my business, and God was really blessing it. Then one morning I was up praying and I felt like the Lord said to me, "Why don’t you pray as hard about your marriage as you do your business?" And I was convicted about that. So, I started praying, "Okay, Lord, help me and Tori," and I just felt a sense of deep conviction that I was not as fully in love with her as I once was. And I felt like the Lord was showing me, "If I have the ability to get you to a 10 in marriage on a scale of 1 to 10, why would you settle for a 5 or a 6? Why even settle for an 8 if you can get to a 10?" And I felt like that was something that I needed to pray into. And so every morning, I got down on my knees about 5:30 in the morning beside our bed and I would lay my hands on Tori. Now, I said this in our last program, but I got to reiterate: I made sure to leave it above the shoulders. I didn’t want her to think I was making an early morning move or anything like that! So, I would place my hands on her and pray that God would reignite my passion for her. No sooner did I do that that the Lord reminded me of Revelation 2. Revelation 2, remember? "You’ve lost your first love," where He was talking to the church in Ephesus. And I felt like the Lord was like, "You stopped pursuing her. You’re now pursuing a career." I’m like, "Well, what do I do?" It’s funny how before you get married, you know how to pursue your spouse, but then after you get married, you kind of forget how. But the Revelation 2 had the answer. Remember He tells them: "Remember how far you’ve fallen. Repent and redo the things you did at first." Remember, repent, redo. In that moment, I started to remember how much I loved Tori and all the times. Then even that day and for the remaining few weeks, I started listening to our old songs that we used to listen to together; it started drumming up emotions in me. I repented for having a marriage that was hovering around a five or a six rather than a ten. And I started to redo the things we did at first that caused us to fall in love—writing notes, dancing together to slow country music in the kitchen, a little Garth Brooks, maybe a little George Strait. You got the soundtracks ready! And my heart started to go in that direction. So, I would say when it feels dead, you need to remember, you need to repent, you need to redo the things that you did at first, and then you watch how God will transform.
Jim Daly: That is really good, and it’s a good awakening when a husband can do that. And I’ll put it in that context. But Tori, let me speak to you again. The woman that’s going, "I’ve kind of done everything I can do," and he’s like, you know, is it time for the spiritual defibrillator because he’s not responsive? And he’s the kind of guy that might say, "Well, I love you. I told you I loved you when we got married. Do I need to tell you again?" That attitude. Speak to that woman in our little dialogue here if she’s in that spot. She feels like it’s not working.
Tori Benham: Well, I was that woman. I remember very much being that woman, and like Jason was telling with the story is that he had pursued me so much in our dating years. But then we got married and he started this business and he really—all of his attention went to the business. All of his focus went to that business. And I remember being in the bathroom on the floor crying many, many nights. Just, "God, please turn his heart back to me, help him to cherish me again." I remember the Lord getting me to a place where He wanted me to have my full dependency on Him. I remember just asking the Lord to do—asking Him, begging Him just turn Jason’s heart towards me. And then He began to show me how to turn my face towards Him, towards God. Because my expectations and my desires were all wrapped up in the way that Jason was treating me and the way that Jason was responding to me. And so the Lord had to do something inside of me to where my full reliance was on Him and that my needs were met through Him. He began to do that as I began to surrender that to Him. I never stopped asking—I continued to ask God to change Jason’s heart towards me—but I surrendered a part of my heart that just longed so much for Jason to meet my needs and I gave it to the Lord and let Him start meeting those needs. Then in time, the Lord started using Jason to meet those needs, but I knew who it was. I knew who the source was. And it wasn’t Jason. I knew my source was God Himself and that He was now using Jason to meet those needs. But I think that most women that I talk to go through this. This is something very common where there is a period in your relationship where it feels dead. It feels like it’s gone somewhere. And you remember and all you have is this distant memory of what it once was. And it’s so hard in those moments. But I think that the Lord can use all of it. I don’t think any of it is ever wasted.
Jim Daly: Let’s end with P, which you say is practice presence. You have a powerful story about your mom, who died of lung cancer in 2017, I believe. How did that intersect with presence?
Jason Benham: My mom was the most fully present woman that you’d ever meet. What we tell couples is the greatest present that you can give to your spouse is your presence. It works with family too. My mom, she came down with pulmonary fibrosis, which is a scarring of the lungs. In her final days, you know, they send in the palliative nurses and basicly it’s just they’re trying to give her comfort measures so that she can pass peacefully because there was nothing that we could do. She was only 68 years old. They came in and offered her morphine. At this point, she was really having a hard time breathing; her oxygen levels were so low. It was like she was walking on a treadmill trying to breathe through a straw, and we’re watching her in pain. She was a nurse, though, and so she knew that once you start administering the morphine, then you can fall asleep and just pass away that way. We’re all like, "Please do that. That’s what we want you to do." She’s like, "No, I want to be present. I want to be there with all of us." You know, we had her for another four days. We would all gather around and sing worship. Then she would open her eyes every now and then; you’d see a little tear come out of her. Like, she was experiencing—she was there with us. Then on the last night, it was my little daughter Allie, who was our oldest daughter, and she stayed with my mom that night and I was up there with her all night. I slept on the floor and Allie was sleeping right next to her. My mom was having a hard time breathing and one of the little bells went off, so Allie got up. My mom had a mask on and Allie moved her mask just a little bit and my mom said, "Coke." She just wanted a Coke! You know, she’s in her dying days, she wants Coke, let’s get her Coke. Allie got her some Coke. This is like 2:00 in the morning, and I’m laying on the ground and I’m watching this. Allie gets her a Coke. She’s drinking it out of a straw and then Allie pulls it back. Then my mom reaches up and pulls her mask back and says in broken English, "I love you, Allie." Then she put her mask right back on. And those were her last words. Then she died that morning. But not until my little daughter Allie got a chance to be in the presence of her grandmother. And that was the greatest gift. And so when we were writing this book, I was like, "Man, my mom, she just was somebody who was fully present." And you know now, I mean, when you got your phones and all this kind of stuff, it’s really hard to be fully present. But I’ll never forget eight years ago when my mom was fully present, and now my daughter Allie has a story to tell and I’m telling people this story. I wish I could tell it without crying; it’s just not going to happen. But I know it makes you feel like you want to hug me right now, Jim, so we can hold each other after this broadcast!
Jim Daly: Better that you do! It does illustrate the connection. What a beautiful gift for your daughter to hear that from her grandmother. That does make me cry because...
Tori Benham: What she taught us was just that you have to fight for presence. What Nana taught us was the fight for it. For four days, she didn’t need to fight. She could have just taken the morphine and gone to sleep and been peaceful and not suffered at all. But she actually wrote on a dry-erase board: "Pray that the Lord will give me increased strength to fight," because that was when she lost her voice and she couldn’t even say. But she just—she fought for the presence of her family. Those moments were precious to her. They meant something to her, and she suffered through some of the pain so that we could have her presence and that she could have ours.
Jason Benham: And you know, that’s exactly what Jesus did on the cross when he was offered that little mix on the sponge and he refused to drink it. It was just a little something that could have numbed the pain, and Jesus was like, "I’m going to stay fully present." I got a chance to see that in real life, and it really makes me thankful that our Savior did that and He stayed fully present even in the midst of His pain. You know what? In marriage, yeah, sometimes it is painful to give your spouse full presence. But when you do that, it’s the greatest gift you can ever give to your spouse, and when they open it, they’re going to get a real treasure.
Jim Daly: I mean, you’ve said it so beautifully, and what a story to land on that grabs everybody’s emotion. You know, whether it’s your marriage, your parenting, connections with people, this is really good—this resource. You can apply it in all kinds of ways. But ideally, certainly in your marriage: *A to Z Marriage: 30 Days to Relational Transformation*. Probably one of the easiest ways to start thinking differently and getting the benefit of thinking differently by loving each other and connecting with each other. Thank you both for being with us.
Tori Benham: Thank you!
Jason Benham: Thanks for having us.
Jim Daly: And for the listeners, we certainly recommend to get a copy of the Benhams’ book. Make a monthly pledge of any amount, and we’ll put this resource into your hands. What we really need right now are more "friends of the family" who are willing to become monthly partners with us in ministry. You can do ministry through your giving to Focus on the Family today.
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John Fuller: Monthly pledges or a generous one-time gift also helps. Donate today when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or online at FocusOnTheFamily.com/weekend. And thanks for joining us for today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. [Ad break - Josh / Jim Daly / Hope Restored]
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