The Narrow Path 08/19/2026

Steve Gregg: Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we're live for an hour each weekday afternoon, as we are today, so that you can call in during the program and you can raise questions for discussion that we can discuss on the air. Your questions about the Bible, about the Christian faith, if you disagree with the host on something that has been given in an answer to somebody else and you want to balanced comment, we welcome that as well. You're always welcome to challenge, seek to disprove, or whatever, something that you think the host is wrong about. This is not a program that's here to showcase the opinions of the host. This is a learning educational program, which means that unless the host is omniscient, we may need some correction once in a while from somebody like you. Feel free to give us a call. The number is 844-484-5737. One more time, we have one line open right now. You can call 844-484-5737. So, we're going to go to the phones now and talk to Dominic in San Clemente, California. Hi Dominic, welcome to the Narrow Path. You're on the air.
Dominic: Hi Steve. I've read the scripture, I think it's Romans 8:21, about the Canaanite woman pleading with Jesus to heal her daughter. And one of the things I never really caught is where he says that he was only there for the Jews. And I've looked up several different translations and they all say only. He was only here, that Jesus says he was only here for the Jews. Yet there's many other scriptures like John 3:16 that show that Jesus knows that he was here for all of mankind. So, how do you reconcile that?
Steve Gregg: Well, first of all, some people mistakenly think that that means that the whole purpose of Jesus coming is only for the Jews. No, he was reaching out to the Jew first. That's what Paul says in Romans 2. By the way, the story is not found in Romans, it's in Luke. But anyway, the gospel is to the Jew first and then also to the Greek, the Bible says. Even Paul, when he went to Pisidian Antioch, which was a Gentile region, he went into the synagogue to preach to the Jews and they rejected him. This is Acts 13. And he said, it was necessary that the gospel first be preached to you, meaning to you Jews. But he says, because you reject it and count yourselves unworthy of eternal life, we're going to the Gentiles. So, the idea was God had already made promises in the Old Testament to the Jews, including the promise that he'd send them the Messiah, including the promise that he'd make a new covenant with those who received the Messiah. And so, the Jews who were in this covenantal relationship with God were the first to receive the opportunity. But their rejection certainly left the door open for others to come in. In fact, even when Jesus made this statement, it's not like he was absolutely only coming to the Jews, although that was his mission. He was not sent yet to the Gentiles. He says, I'm not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But this woman was not in that category and she got what she asked for because of her great faith. And so did the centurion. In Romans 8, so did the Roman centurion, also a pagan, not a Jew, who impressed Jesus with his incredible faith, so much so that Jesus said, I've not seen this kind of faith in all of Israel. In other words, the Jews I've come to haven't shown anything like this kind of faith that this Gentile has. So he granted him his request. So, even though Jesus was sent to the Jew first, a Gentile even at that point could break through and receive something if they had sufficient faith. Now, of course, after essentially the Jewish nation rejected Christ officially, the leadership did anyway, then the gospel is equally available to the Gentiles. But even so, the apostles didn't really go out to the Gentiles right away. After Pentecost, they stayed in Jerusalem for many years evangelizing the Jews. Paul was among the first to go out to Gentiles. Of course, Philip did too with the Ethiopian eunuch, and Peter went to the house of Cornelius, but Paul was commissioned to go to the Gentiles and even he, when he went to a new territory, first went to the Jews in that territory at the synagogue and then when they rejected him, he'd go to the Gentiles. And it was usually the Gentiles who were much more receptive to the gospel than the Jews were. But yeah, Jesus is pointing out to his disciples when this woman is pestering them and she's a Gentile and she wants help for her demon-possessed daughter, Jesus, I'm only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. However, even though that was true, this woman as a Gentile was able to prevail because of her faith.
Dominic: Yes, it didn't shake my faith at all, but I knew you'd have a good answer. So, thank you.
Steve Gregg: Yeah, it was at that point in his ministry. He wasn't yet extending the invitation to the Gentiles. That's what he was saying. All right. Well, thank you, sir. Good talking to you. Priscilla from Vancouver, BC. How you doing, Priscilla?
Priscilla: Greetings, Steve. How are you doing?
Steve Gregg: I'm well, thanks.
Priscilla: Good. I've been doing a little study in Psalm 66 verse 6 and then also Matthew 17:21. And I would like you to expand on how important it is. And what I've learned is that only through total absolute reliance on God is so important. I think it's beautiful how he turned the sea into dry land. They passed through the river on foot. When he referred to this kind of, it's not because of maybe things the disciples did before, but only through God they drew that spirit out. And I'm going to politely just ask you to expand on how when we think we can rely on things, but when we rely on God that it's immeasurable and how important that is.
Steve Gregg: What was the, did you say Matthew 17:21?
Priscilla: Yes, it's about "this kind does not come out but by prayer and fasting."
Steve Gregg: Okay.
Priscilla: And they got used to sort of like drawing them on their own, but they have to rely on God because that sort of demonic influence needed more than just them doing it all the time.
Steve Gregg: Right. Well, yes. I mean, the Psalm isn't specifically related to the same thing that the statement in Matthew is. In Psalm 66, the Psalmist is doing what what happens in quite a few of the Psalms, actually. He's recounting what God has done for Israel in the past. And in, as in many cases they do, they begin with the Exodus, that is when God brought them out of Egypt, he parted the Red Sea and they walked through it dry on dry ground. And then, of course, when it says they went through the river on foot, that's after 40 years, that is 40 years after the Exodus, they walked into Canaan across the river when it it also stopped and they walked on dry ground. So, it's just referring to the fact that God did miraculous things at the beginning of Israel's history to deliver them from Egypt and to help them in turn and receive the promised land. What you're getting out of that, I guess, is that only God could do that. And of course, of course, that's true. Now, in the other story, the disciples had been unable to cast a demon out of a boy who had been brought to them by his father, who was demonized in very dangerously so. The demon would throw him into fits and cast him into fire or water if it was nearby, trying to kill him. But Jesus did cast the demon out of him quite easily. The disciples had been unable to. And the disciples said, why couldn't we cast it out? And his actual answer is, because of your unbelief. That's in verse 20. You couldn't because of your unbelief. And he says, for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, move here to there, and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you. So he's saying you have to have faith in God to do that which is impossible for humans. So your connection with Psalm 66:6, it has, I guess, that in common, that crossing the Red Sea was something that couldn't be done without God doing a miracle. Now, in Matthew 17:21, however, "this kind does not come out except by prayer and fasting." This verse is not found in the oldest manuscripts of Matthew. It's found in the Textus Receptus, which was used by the King James and the New King James, but since that time, scholars have discovered more ancient manuscripts and there are a few differences in them from the ones that informed these early English translations. And those older manuscripts don't have verse 21 in them at all. "However, this kind does not come out except by prayer and fasting." However, there is a parallel to that statement in Mark, or it may be in Luke. It's in one of the other Gospels where it does say "this kind does not come out except by prayer." The fasting is not mentioned in the older manuscripts. But in all the ancient manuscripts, prayer is mentioned in one of the parallels to this. So, this kind can only come out by prayer. Now, of course, some might say, well, did Jesus not mention fasting then? Well, in the older manuscripts, we don't have record of him doing so. And there's always been some dispute as to whether the older manuscripts are corrupted or whether they're closer to the original. And that debate I can't get into right now. So, of course, there's the possibility that Jesus did say it the way that the later manuscripts recorded. Although most scholars would say the older manuscripts are closer to the original and the later manuscripts people have added here and there a word or two. And so they're looking at this. In any case, that's not even what you asked about. In fact, I'm not 100% sure what the core of your question was, but certainly the common denominator in both of these cases is that God did what only God could do. I appreciate your call. Pat in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Welcome to the Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
Pat: Hi Steve. Thanks. Ephesians 2:8-9 has been my one of my favorite verses. "By grace you have been saved through faith." And I got to thinking, okay, I'm thinking saved by grace. Grace is not just God's warm, fuzzy feeling for us. I thought it's an action. What would you say is God's active grace that saves each of us?
Steve Gregg: Well, the word grace has a range of meaning in New Testament usage. We evangelicals like myself, I was always taught the definition of grace is unmerited favor. In other words, something you get, some favorable treatment you receive without meriting it, without earning it. Now, that certainly would work in this passage of Ephesians 2:8, "By grace you're saved through faith, that's not of yourselves, it's the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." However, that's unmerited favor is not the only usage of the word grace. Grace is considered to be an active aspect of God given to us. It says in John chapter 1 and verse 14, "The Word became flesh and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." And then two verses later says, "And of of his fullness we have received grace upon grace." Now, it said that Jesus was full of grace and we have received that fullness to ourselves. So now we're full of grace, too. And so, Paul said, "Let your words be seasoned with grace," or "be with grace, seasoned with salt." Grace, certainly grace has the meaning of graciousness or being graceful, full of grace, but it's more than that too. Because Paul speaks about grace as something that enables, it's like an empowering. He says, when he prayed three times that Jesus would remove the thorn in his flesh, the Lord said to him, "My grace is sufficient for you. My strength is made perfect in your weakness." And Paul often uses the word grace to speak of an enabling power. For example, in 1 Corinthians 3, I think it's verse 10, he said, "But I, according to the grace of God given to me," you know, laid the foundation of the church in Corinth. And in other words, the grace of God helped him do that. And over in 1 Corinthians 15, also I think verse 10, he said about himself and the other apostles, he says, "I labored more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me." So he's seen, you know, his what enabled him to work more do more work than the other apostles, it wasn't his strength, it was the grace of God in him. And you know, it does say in Hebrews that we need to come boldly before the throne of grace to receive mercy and grace to help in time of need. Now we usually think of grace as almost synonymous with mercy. And there is a obviously a connection there. But he says, "At the throne of grace, we not only receive mercy, we we receive assistance, we receive the grace to help in time of need." So there's a supernatural enabling that Paul is thinking of many times where he's referring to grace. And in fact, when the gifts of the Holy Spirit are discussed by Paul, whether it's in Romans 12 or maybe 1 Corinthians 12, or even when Peter talks about them in 1 Peter 4:10 and 11, the word for gift is charisma, which is based on the word charis. Charis is the Greek word for grace. The word charisma, which is translated gift, means a gift of grace. Now, when Paul talks about the gifts, he talks about things like, you know, the gift of prophecy, the gift of tongues, the gift of interpretation tongues, the gift of working miracles, the gifts of healings, the gift of teaching, the gift of leading, the gift of exhorting, the gift of showing mercy. Obviously, these gifts of grace are imparting grace to us, enabling us to do God's work through his enabling power, his grace given to us. So grace is more, as you said, more than God's benevolent disposition toward us. Grace is something of his own character. He's Jesus was full of grace. And now of his fullness we have received, it says in John chapter 1. So you know, we are given grace. In my opinion, the whole Christian life is lived, if successfully at all, through grace. It's God who gives you the grace to endure. It's God who gives you the grace to obey. It's God who gives you the grace to exhibit the character of Christ. And so grace is a much more holistic concept in the Bible than than just, you know, God's unmerited favor. Another definition sometimes, a Sunday school definition would be God's riches at Christ's expense. Of course, that's an acrostic, G-R-A-C-E, God's riches at Christ's expense, is a little broader, a little broader definition because God's riches could refer to benefits or enablement or power or whatever. I mean, the point is, grace is something we do not earn or deserve. But it's not merely the expunging of our sinful record. It's also the enabling to live as we should.
Pat: Okay, when I re-read when I read Ephesians 2 over and over again, verse 5 says, even Paul says even when we were in trespasses, we were dead in trespasses, spiritually dead, he made us alive together with Christ, he made us spiritually alive, and then the verse ends by saying, "By grace you have been saved." Seemed like that's the action that God took to really save us, start the process of salvation. We're spiritually dead, he made us alive.
Steve Gregg: Yeah, well, we have to remember that in the Bible, salvation isn't as narrow a concept as we sometimes think of it. We think of grace somewhat narrowly and we also think of salvation rather narrowly. But in the Bible, salvation isn't just forgiveness of sins. And when we think, "I'm saved by grace," people usually think that means my sins are forgiven even though I don't deserve it, by God's merciful disposition and grace. Well, that is true, but in the scriptures, salvation isn't merely forgiveness of sins. Salvation is a restoration to the proper relationship with God, including his enablement to overcome sin in our lives. We're saved from the bondage of our sins, too. And God's gives us the grace in times of need, help, come to the throne of grace and receive help, grace to help in time of need. You know it says in Titus chapter 2 and I believe it's verse 11, he says that the grace of God that brings salvation has been manifested to all, teaching us, that is grace teaches us, grace having been manifested to us teaches us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present age or world. Now Paul says grace teaches us to live a sober and godly, obedient life. It teaches us, that is it reorients us. It's an inward reorientation that comes with literally being saved, being born again. We now have God's grace not only forgiving us, but living and operating through us, teaching us to live a holy life and enabling us to do it. So grace, yeah, it's a broad spectrum term. Anyone who's never done so would benefit greatly, I think, by doing a a word study on grace in the New Testament and how how it is used in various places. Thanks for your call, Pat. Evan in Warren, Michigan. Welcome to the Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
Evan: Yeah, I just have a question. Who are the elect and what do Calvinists say who are the elect also?
Steve Gregg: Well, Calvinists believe that the word elect refers to a certain company of people who from the beginning of the world or before, God has chosen. The word elect means chosen. To elect, like when we elect a president, means to choose. Elect and choose are the same word, they're just different English words for the same Greek word. So, to say the chosen. The ones who are chosen are the elect. Now, Calvinists believe that there's a certain number of people of all the people who would live and die throughout history, and that God has selected or chosen to save them. And their number cannot be added to or subtracted from because he made this decision before the world existed. So their number is determined, their identities are determined. That means that when you were born, if you were not on God's list, you cannot be saved. If you were on God's list, you cannot fail to be saved. The elect will inevitably be saved according to Calvinism, and those who just didn't make that list cannot be saved no matter what. Now, this is how Calvinism teaches it. The Bible doesn't teach that and neither did any church fathers ever teach that until about the fifth century. That's Augustine's ideas entering the church at that time. Calvinists are Augustinians, they follow Augustine. So, this doctrine is was a a late occurring doctrine. It was you know, basically Augustine changed a lot in Christian theology. The interesting thing is he didn't read Greek. He read Latin. He he said he couldn't read Greek well. And yet the church fathers before him, many of them were Greek-speaking fathers. They were the Greek fathers and and they spoke the same language the New Testament was written in from their mother's knee. And so you know, they they understood Greek really well. And they didn't agree with Augustine's ideas. He he came up with them in the absence of an understanding of the Greek New Testament. Now, I'm not saying no Calvinist understands Greek. Lots of them have studied Greek. But once you've decided on a certain theological paradigm, you you tend to confirm it to yourself. It's sort of a confirmation bias thing. You you've decided this is taught in the Bible, so you read it into passages even if you read the Greek, you can read it into there. My understanding of the elect is that Jesus is the elect. And anybody who is in him shares in that elect status. Jesus, of course, was an individual who walked the earth and died and rose again, but having ascended to heaven, he now has become the head of a corporate body. His body and head combined are who he is. We are his hands and his feet, we're his flesh and his bones. And therefore, we are in him like the organs of a body are in a body. And the organs in your body, for example, your lungs, your kidneys, your liver, they're part of you. They share in your identity. And and they really can't be separated from you except through some violence or something, but they if they're taken from you, they're no longer in you. That is to say, any organ that is in your body is you, is part of you, shares in your identity. Now, Christ is the chosen one. Those who believe in him, and that can be anyone who wants to and who will do so, this is not like God chose who would and who would not. The Bible doesn't say God chose who would and who would not receive Christ anywhere. I know all the verses about election, people can call and tell me them if they want to, but nowhere says that God chose who would be in Christ and who would not. It does say that we who are in Christ are chosen in him, meaning he's chosen, and since we are in him, we share in that status of being chosen, we're in him. In him we are accepted, in him we've died and risen again, in him we're seated in heavenly places, in him we're righteous. In him, in him, in him, we've received every spiritual blessing. In him we are chosen. That is because Jesus is, we are because we're in him. Therefore, the Bible actually teaches Christ is the chosen one and anybody who is in Christ is chosen in him. It does not say that before the foundation of the world, God decided who would and would not be in him. In fact, he's he's made that our responsibility. That's why we are commanded to believe and repent and why we are blamed if we don't. If if God had decided before we were ever born that we either would would necessarily be converted or alternatively, cannot be converted no matter what, then there'd be no sense in God commanding everyone to repent, since he'd know that the only the ones he had elected would be able to do so. It would make a strange kind of a God, but fortunately, the Bible doesn't teach that kind of a God. Israel was chosen as a as a group, but individuals in Israel could were there by choice. An Israelite could be cut off from the people by denying the covenant. A Gentile could become part of Israel like a native of the land by embracing the covenant. So in other words, being in Israel had nothing to do with something determined about you before you're born. You made the decision to be in Israel or not. If you were in Israel, you were chosen in Israel because Israel collectively was chosen. Christ collectively is chosen and those who are in him are chosen in him. I need to take a break. Thanks for there for your call. You're listening to the Narrow Path. We have another half hour coming, so don't go away. We are listener supported. Our website is thenarrowpath.com. I'll be back in 30 seconds. Don't go away. Welcome back to the Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we're live for another half hour. And just like in the first half hour, we're taking your calls. If you want to call in and you'll raise questions about the Bible or the Christian faith or challenges to anything the host has ever said, feel free. That's fair game here. We welcome it. The number to call is 844-484-5737. If you tried to call in in the first half hour and you found the lines busy, try again right now. I'm looking at several open lines, and that means that's your opportunity to get in before the program's over today. The number to call is 844-484-5737. Fred from Alameda, California is next. Welcome Fred, you're on the air.
Fred: Yes. I asked you a question a long time ago around some a certain verse in Psalm 139 and I think it goes, "Do not I hate them that hate thee, oh Lord, and am I not grieved with those that rise up against me? Yea, I hate them with perfect hatred. I count my enemies as my enemies." So I remember what you told me. You said there's nothing wrong with praying to God to remove someone if they're God's enemies, right?
Steve Gregg: True.
Fred: So my question is in the book of Ecclesiastes, when it says there's a time for hate, is that in coalition with that verse I just gave you, or is Ecclesiastes saying something entirely different?
Steve Gregg: Well, Ecclesiastes has a different point it's making, but I think it would go along with this. I mean that it would be harmonious with it. In Ecclesiastes 3, Solomon says to everything there's a season and a time for every purpose under heaven. Those of you old enough to remember that the Birds had a song called Turn, Turn, Turn, that was their that was the opening line and it was based on this passage in Ecclesiastes chapter 3. It says, "A time to be born, a time to die, a time to plant, a time to pluck out what is planted, a time to kill, a time to heal, a time to break down, a time to build up, a time to weep, a time to laugh, a time to mourn, a time to dance, a time to cast away stones, a time to gather stones, a time to embrace, a time to refrain from embracing, a time to gain, a time to lose, a time to keep, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear, a time to sew, a time to keep silence, a time to speak, a time to love, and a time to hate, a time of war and a time of peace." So you know, he he lists all this all these dichotomies, these opposite terms. And he says, you know, each of these in its own season, that is in its own proper time, has its purpose. It says "to everything there is a season." That means there's a proper time, "a time for every purpose under heaven." So, there are many purposes that men have under heaven and what is appropriate in the pursuit of some purposes would be the opposite of what would be appropriate in the pursuit of others. "A time to cast away stones, a time to gather stones together." Okay, well you cast away stones if you're trying to clear your field to grow crops. A time to gather stones together if you're building a wall. You know, I mean in other words, there's different projects. There are times to love and times to hate. Now, what this would simply mean is there are appropriate things to hate and appropriate things to love. There are times when you you just, you know, you embrace things because they are appropriate to embrace. Other times you withhold embrace. Now, all he's saying is there are times to hate. Now, you might say, but Jesus said we shouldn't hate anybody. Right. But but both David and Solomon in these passages are talking about hating things that God himself hates. We are supposed to share in God's, you know, sympathies. If we have the heart of God, David was a man after God's own heart and therefore what God hates David was determined to hate. It's interesting. David didn't just say, "I've just decided to hate these people and I'm going to decide that probably you hate them too." No, he says, "These are your enemies and therefore I'm making them my enemies." That's what he says. He says in Psalm 139:21, "Do I not hate them, oh Lord, who hate you? And do I not loathe those who rise up against you? I hate them with perfect hatred. I count them my enemies." Notice these these people are have not made themselves his enemies. He is adopting them as enemies because they have set themselves to be enemies of God. Now, now to say that David hates them, he hates them for hating God. "Do not I hate those who hate you?" Interestingly, most of us if we hate somebody, it often has something to do with the fact that they hate us or they've done something to us that we are feeling some sense of need for revenge or or vindicating ourselves. But David doesn't say that at all. You know when when people tried to kill David, he didn't he didn't exhibit this attitude. When Saul tried to kill David, David spared his life and wept when he was killed in battle. Same thing when Absalom tried to kill David and then Absalom was later killed in battle. David wept and didn't want Absalom to die. You know he he didn't have hatred toward those who hated him, but he had hatred toward those who hated God. And this hatred was something that he felt obliged to do. It was like he adopted that hatred. I count them my enemies. Why? Because I'm obliged to do so. I'm on your side. You know when there's a conflict between God and someone else, then to be on God's side is the position to take. And that's what David said he's doing. Now, of course, when we talk about hatred, there's different, you know, the expression of hatred can go different ways. I mean, God loves the world, even God shows kindness to his enemies. Jesus said that, even Psalm 103 says that. So we you know, you know God is kind even to his enemies. On the other hand, when it comes to action, you can't support God's enemies. You have to oppose them. You have to take on enmity as a policy toward those whose enmity is toward God. So I mean, we got a lot of mushy ideas as Christians and even non-Christians have about what it means to love or hate. Primarily, it's seen as an emotion. If I really love somebody, that's a really strong emotion. If I really hate someone, that's a strong emotion. Yeah, yeah, it can mean that in the Bible, but it also has a much broader range. Hate sometimes can simply mean to disfavor somebody as opposed to favoring another. Hate can mean a course of action. I oppose them because love means doing to somebody what you want done to you. That's loving your neighbor as yourself. Love is expressed in action, so is hate. And so doing good to somebody, even if you don't like them much, that is loving your enemy. That's feeding, you know, if your enemy hungers, feed him. If he thirsts, give him drink. It says in Proverbs and in Romans. The idea is this is what loving your enemies looks like. It doesn't mean you feel good about them. It means you act toward them in a loving way. Well, how do you act toward God's enemies? Well, you're going to have to act toward them in a in a hateful way in a way even though you you may not have any ill ill feelings toward them personally. They're on the wrong side of a conflict that you're in. You're on God's side. The devil and his people are on the other side. And you're going to you know take take the course of action that opposes them. You're going to choose a course of hostility toward what they're doing because they hate God and you don't. And so that's you know when Solomon later says in Ecclesiastes 3, there's a time to love and time to hate. He's simply saying, yeah, you know different circumstances call for different responses. There're all kinds. And what Solomon seems to be saying in chapter 3 of Ecclesiastes is, you know, there are no absolutes. Now we don't agree with that, and we don't have to. Solomon said lots of things in Ecclesiastes that we wouldn't agree with. He said there's nothing better for a man than to eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of his labor. Well, the Bible you know certainly teaches there are better things than that. But Solomon is not telling us he's not writing a book of theology, he's writing a testimony of his own backsliddenness. He talks about how he looked for you know meaning under the sun, meaning excluding God. And he tried money, he tried parties, he tried women, he tried music, he tried horticulture, he tried philosophy, he tried all kinds of things. And he said he he was looking for man's chief good leaving God out of account. In other words, among the things of earth under the sun, he couldn't it was all emptiness. He says it's all vanity, all emptiness and striving after the wind. And so he's he's not telling us the way to be or even the way to think. He's saying I was doing these things. I was far from God. I thought these things. And he's sharing us the philosophy and the course that he took when he was backslidden. At the end of Ecclesiastes, he he brings it back to the right place. He says, let's hear the whole let's hear the conclusion of the matter, he says in the last verses of chapter 12. He says, fear God and keep his commandments. This is the whole duty of man. In other words, in light of all I've said in the past 12 chapters, you don't have to make this vain search for meaning apart from God. I've been there, done that, I got the t-shirt and now I can tell you what it what it's about. Just serve God. That's what matters. He's going to bring every work into judgment whether it be good or evil, he says. So Ecclesiastes is kind of like the testimony, you know, back in the Jesus movement we used to hear people give their testimonies and sometimes 95% of it was them telling how many drugs they took and how promiscuous they were and how many liquor stores they robbed and things like that and then finally they got saved, you know. And that's kind of that kind of a testimony from Solomon. I did all these wrong things, I looked at all the wrong places. Now I can tell you what where where to look, not the places I did. So you know Solomon in chapter 3 there in Ecclesiastes maybe saying you know I couldn't find any basis for any absolute standards at all. Sometimes you kill, sometimes you heal, sometimes you feed, sometimes you deprive, sometimes you hug, sometimes you don't. It's like saying apart from God there's really no basis for any absolute standards at all. Everything's right in its own time. Sort of a situational ethics. And really when you don't bring God into the equation, that's kind of true. That's something atheists have not really been able to sort out. They say, well we can be moral without believing in God. Really? On what basis? I mean, I know that an atheist can live a good life, some do, but on what basis can you decide what a good life is supposed to be and on what basis can you set forth an ethical system that people should be obliged to follow if there's not a God who decides those things? Because you can't decide them for everyone else. You know someone's got to be above us all who decides those things. You don't have God, you got no absolutes. And that's kind of what Solomon's saying. He's not he's not teaching that as a doctrine. He's saying, here's here's the philosophy, here's some of the results of my thinking when I was looking for things for the meaning of life under the sun. Yeah, it was a vain effort, it was like striving after the wind. Very frustrating. All right. So, anyway, that's what I would say about that. All right, Fred. Thanks for your call. Let's see here. Our next caller is Julian in Vancouver, British Columbia. Hi Julian, welcome.
Julian: Hey, good afternoon. Um, thank you. I wanted to ask you to articulate some some ideas for me because when you articulate things they just they just shed so much light in a different perspective. It's it's really fresh. I really love you a lot. Um, so I got these things that happen week to week and every week um it seems like what I'm calling a word of the Lord keeps coming into my mind and it keeps changing. Like one week it's like talking about confession. That true confession is just coming into agreement with the Lord that sin is wrong and the things of the sin is wrong and that Jesus Christ is the Lord and the savior of our lives. And then the next week it's my mind goes to something totally different talking about being born again and how it relates to the seed and the seed is something that is internal and that's what's born again and and that's what grows after we're dead. And then I go to Corinthians talking about, okay. So what would your question be for me? Well, I'm just I need some articulation like what what is that that it's really clear and vivid in my mind? And I'm and I don't think I'm alone. I think it's for believers of all believers. It's like we get these like mini ministries in our own head in our own lives and the dialogue and and I do street preaching on the corner of Granville and and Georgia in Vancouver out and I usually speak the supremacy of Christ in Corinthians 1. But that's not really a question. That's not really a question. Do you have a question for me? Like what what is that going on in my head? Like what well like how does it change? Like what is that the Holy Spirit like is that the question? I don't know, maybe I just.
Steve Gregg: Okay, well, I'll tell you. It you you know when you meditate on the word of God, you get insights on the word of God. And the Bible does indicate that the Holy Spirit is in us and he'll guide us into all truth. What you're describing I don't think is very unusual for people who are Christians. It certainly hasn't been unusual in my life, you know. When I'm driving or walking or you know I used to be a janitor to support the myself in the ministry when I was doing janitorial work, I'd be thinking about the things of God and be thinking about the scriptures and things you know thoughts along those lines would you could you know my thoughts would wander in those directions and and I would often get insights that I'd have to say afterwards, yeah, I think that was the Lord. You know, I mean, obviously some could argue, well, you're just you know your mind is just wandering and it's just your imagination. What what I've found on many occasions, I mean this is kind of like a almost a motif of my life in my early years, was I'd be doing something that didn't require much thought and I always preferred doing things that didn't require much thought so I could think about what I wanted to think about. And and you know I'd be thinking about some scripture. It might be that I didn't even call it to mind, maybe it just came to my mind. And I later realized I think the Holy Spirit brought that there because I would not only would the scripture come, but a different way of looking at it than I had been taught would would just suggest its self. Now I had no idea is this me making a mistake? Is this God or what? But very commonly, I mean scores if not hundreds of times in my life, I'd be thinking about a scripture, something about it that no one had ever mentioned, maybe something that you know turned the meaning in a slightly different direction would come to my mind and I wouldn't trust my mind because I'd never heard anyone say it so I figured maybe it's just my imagination, maybe it's even the devil, but but it it seemed right. And so when I'd have the chance when I get back to my books and stuff, I'd look in the commentaries or the lexicons and see if and the context of the passage, see if actual study and exegesis could bear out that meaning. And just about every time I can remember that was the case. I mean, a thought would come to me like you're describing, you know, something comes to my mind. I wonder is that the Holy Spirit or is that just me? And then because I love to study things out, I'd keep that as a question in my mind until I had opportunity to study it out and then when I did, turns out it seemed even more correct after studying it than than before studying it. So to my mind that's just how the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. Now, on the other hand, I would still if I had a really strange idea come to my head, now you're not describing strange ideas, sounds like you're just describing insights that are coming to you that don't seem very controversial, but if a very controversial and strange idea came to my head even at this point after being a you know a teacher for fifty-six years or whatever it's been, I would still be suspicious of it because I don't assume and unfortunately some people do, I don't assume that every thought that comes to my mind that is interesting or original, I don't assume it's the Holy Spirit. I assume it could be if it's something that glorifies God, if it's something I cannot see any reason to to disqualify scripturally, you know, I think that it could be true but I will not teach it as true or or hold to it as true until I've had a chance to you know study it out as much as I have capability of doing. And then if it turns out that my studies seem to confirm it, then it becomes part of my thinking. But you know different people have different experiences and anyone who saturates their mind with scripture and loves the scripture and wants to meditate on day and night, this kind of things going to happen I assume all the time. And or maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's mostly people who teach and preach, you know, maybe God's doing something different in your life and mine because we teach and preach. That's possible. But this was happening to me before I was doing much preaching or teaching. So, I think I think it's just the way the Holy Spirit, you know, leads some people. Sounds like that's the case with you. And so you say I don't know where this is coming from. Well, I don't either, but it sounds to me like, you know, sounds like the Holy Spirit's just kind of drawing you into greater understanding of certain things. And that's always fun. Fun and profitable. Thank you for your call. Linda in Los Angeles, California. And by the way, if you'd like to join us before the show is over, the number to call is 844-484-5737. Linda, welcome to the Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
Linda: Thank you. Um, yeah, Steve, could you explain the concept of conditional forgiveness and what is used to support that scripturally and then your perspective on that? Thank you.
Steve Gregg: Okay. All right. Sure. Well, of course when we talk about forgiveness in the New Testament, there's of course the whole issue of God forgiving people, which is one of the doctrines in scripture. And then there's of course that requirement that God puts upon us to forgive people. Now you mention conditional and unconditional forgiveness. It says in 2 Corinthians chapter 5 and verse 19, 2 Corinthians 5:19 says, "that is God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation." Now our message to the world is that of reconciliation. What is it? That God in Christ was reconciling the world to himself and not imputing their sins against them. Whose? The world's. God was treating the world as if they hadn't sinned. And he was coming to reconcile himself to the world. Now of course God doing that is kind of like a kind of a default forgiveness. I mean God loved the world, sinners and all, because that's all that was here. No one here wasn't sinner. So God loved sinners and he so he sent his only son to to die for us. So God has an attitude of benevolence and forgiveness toward all and willingness to to act favorably toward us as if we hadn't sinned. Now that doesn't change the fact that we're alienated from him if we don't agree with that. Because it takes two to reconcile. Only takes one person to break a relationship. It takes two to maintain one or to restore one. So God has made the steps to restore. Now it's in our the ball is in our court. We will be we will receive that forgiveness. We will be reconciled in in reality if we, you know, come to Christ and put our faith in him and repent of our sins. Now, therefore, there's a sense in which there's an unconditional benevolence and disposition to forgive on God's part. That's in his heart toward us. But the actual reconciliation, that is the repair of the relationship that was broken, requires both parties participation. Now this is also true in terms of us forgiving other people. Because in Luke chapter 17, Jesus said, "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in one day, and seven times in a day returns to you and saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him." That's Luke 17 verses 3 and 4. So he says, if your brother sins against against you, confront him about it and if he repents, forgive him. And yet in another place, Mark chapter 11, Jesus said in verse 25, "whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive you your trespasses." So obviously us forgiving others is one of the conditions for our being reconciled to God. He he's he's disposed to forgive, but the actual the actualization of forgiveness and repent and reconciliation will come when we come on his terms. Likewise, if somebody sins against us, we have to be disposed to forgive while we're praying, we have to actually forgive them. That's something that takes place in our heart. You know, there's no one is there. We're we're standing and praying. It's just us and God together. And we remember somebody has done something wrong to me. Jesus said, well, just forgive him. So just like God kind of unilaterally doesn't count the sins the world against them, so we're supposed to do the same thing toward people who offended us. But God's unilateral beneficence doesn't mean we're reconciled to him. That requires us participating, us believing and repenting. Likewise, just because I forgive somebody in my heart who did me wrong, doesn't mean the relationship is fixed. I have to go to them. If they don't know that they've wronged me, I'm supposed to let them know. And if they repent, just like that's what's required of me with God, I mean God is forgiven us in his heart, but that doesn't put us back in relationship with him. It's the relationship that saves us, not God's generic attitude. It's being in relation with him that saves a person. And so also God's concerned not only that we forgive in our hearts, that's a function of love. But he wants us to forgive he wants us to restore the relationship, where therefore trust can be restored as well. You can love everybody, even your enemies, but some people you won't turn your back on them because they can't be trusted. But you want to be have the relationship restored so that you can trust each other. I mean, trust is the basis of relationships. Not love. You can have relationship with people that you don't much love, as long as you can trust them. But you know, we should it's great to love them too. You want to love them. You want to have love in a relationship. And you can love somebody unilaterally. But you can't trust them unless they earn that. Trust has to be earned. Love doesn't. So the first part is love. God loved the world. And we're supposed to love our enemies. That means that in our hearts we forgive them and hope for reconciliation, just like God hopes for reconciliation with man. But then there's that little issue of distrust. God can't trust you if you haven't repented, if you're living in sin and you you don't even want to change. Well, he can't trust you to not sin then. And just like someone who's wronged you. You can't trust them not to do it again if if they haven't repented of it. Repenting means they decide that they did the wrong thing and don't want to do that anymore. So to restore the relationship after you've forgiven them in your heart, which is unconditional, you need to see if it's possible to restore the relationship, which is conditional. Trust always has to be conditional because you can't trust somebody who's untrustworthy. You can love somebody who's not lovable, but you can't trust somebody who's unreliable. And God God loves people that he can't trust, unfortunately. I mean, it's unfortunate that he can't, but he doesn't trust people who have not given any reason to believe that they could be trusted. So forgiveness on the at the heart level is unconditional, both for God and for us. On the relationship level, it's conditional upon repentance for both God and for us. And so that's how I would understand those things. We've got our lines mostly full now, but we're out of time. I'm sorry to say. You've been listening to the Narrow Path. Our website is thenarrowpath.com. Check it out and let's talk again tomorrow. God bless.